ever hear Jesus say this?

(9:03 PM) Jer: mwhahahahahaha
i am in possession of the ID10T awards
if you need one awarded, lemme know

(9:04 PM) H: no i am good
i know that i am being dumb but i am going to rise above

(9:05 PM) Jer: no, no not to you, to someone who deserves one

(9:05 PM) H: oh
hmmm i could post on on brandons desk

(9:06 PM) Jer: this gospel of thomas is interesting

(9:06 PM) H: what is that?

(9:07 PM) Jer: "He who does not hate his father and mother cannot be my disciple; and if he does not hate his brother and sister and does not take up his cross like me, he will not become worthy of me"

(9:10 PM) Jer: "When you know yourselves then you will be known, and you will know that it is you who are the sons of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you will be in a state of poverty, and it is you who will be the poverty!"

(9:11 PM) H: i like these

(9:12 PM) Jer: "today you eat dead things and make them into something living; but when you will be in Light, what will you do then?"

(9:15 PM) Jer: the disciples ask: "Do you want us to fast? How shall we pray, how shall we give alms, what rules concerning eating shall we follow?"

"When you fast, you will beget sin for yourselves; when you pray, you will be condemned; when you give alms, you will do evil to your souls! But when you enter any land and travel over the country, when you are welcomed to eat what is put before you; those who are ill in those places, heal them. For what enters into your mouth will not defile you, but what comes out of your mouth, it is that which will defile you!"

(9:17 PM) H: nice

(9:17 PM) Jer: mwahahahaha
it's like a mix of transcendentalism and budhism

(9:18 PM) H: its nice

(9:18 PM) Jer: "if a blind man leads another blind man, both of them fall into a ditch"

(9:20 PM) H: lol

(9:20 PM) Jer: disciples ask: "On what day wilt thou appear to us, and what day shall we see thee?"

"When you strip yourselves without being ashamed, when you take off your clothes and lay them at your feet like children and trample on them! Then you will become children of him who is living, and you will have no more fear"

(9:20 PM) H: all this stuff is so great beucase it is true

(9:21 PM) Jer: mwahahahaha
like Zen
i'm gonna make copies to send to my dad... i'll make some for you too

(9:21 PM) H: schweet!

(9:23 PM) Jer: "He who has known the world has fallen into a corpse/ a body; and he who has fallen into a corpse/ a body, the world is not worthy of him!

(9:23 PM) H: i feel like sparking john and being like....is that tool satchel rittle helping you out.....man he is such a dink

(9:24 PM) Jer: hahaha
he'll have to get back with you on that...

(9:24 PM) H: lol
i think on my last day i am going to ream him out

(9:25 PM) Jer: it will be a good thing

(9:25 PM) H: i can't wait it is all going to build up and then boom
i am going to plan it now

(9:27 PM) Jer: hehehe
this is an interesting allusion... the holy spirit is regarded as the sophia, that inherent nature which causes us to act when we are enlightened or "aligned":

"He who has blasphemed the Father will be forgiven, and he who has blasphemed the son will be forgiven : but he who has blasphemed the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven either on earth or in heaven."

(9:29 PM) Jer: evidently she holds grudges

(9:31 PM) H: nice
how would someone go about to blaspheme the holy spirit
like taking her power and not using it correctly?

(9:32 PM) Jer: erm... not listening to your gut instincts and acting contrary to your natural inclination

(9:33 PM) H: like intuition

(9:33 PM) Jer: yup
the ultimate gnosis
the tao
the mother or all things
who is ironically enough even in gnostic tradition the mother of all physical (nameable) things

(9:34 PM) H: i could understand that so far my intuition has never led me astray

(9:34 PM) Jer: yup
which is pretty much what all the rantings on my myspace page says.

(9:35 PM) H: so she is like this spirit that has seen many things happen before so she warns us with instinct

(9:36 PM) Jer: and what the cloud of unknowing says... which was written in the 13th C and considered a heresy at the time
she is the ultimate causality
and the knowledge to move from this physical existence

(9:38 PM) H: i could see why she holds a grudge because through out her existence she is always the victim to someone or something being negligent to her

(9:43 PM) Jer: well in a figurative sense... if you cannot detach yourself from the physical or wanton desires enough to be able to act entirely out of that inclination/inspiration... you cannot hope to excel at any point beyond the physical world

(9:46 PM) H: that sounds about right
physical desires are too troubling to keep up with, they make you feel out of place and out of yourself

(9:49 PM) Jer: Socrates would point out that the body is not your true self
it is this odd little vessel
to the gnosistcs, a prison confining your true essence

(9:50 PM) H: damn the body and its impulses

(9:50 PM) Jer: hehee
it seeks to survive
life feeds on life to create more of it's own kind of life

(9:51 PM) H: that is where physical attraction and spiritual attraction comes into play

(9:52 PM) Jer: yup

(9:52 PM) H: for the spiritual you need to ignore all of the bodies sense's and be patient

(9:52 PM) Jer: yup

(9:53 PM) H: physical is just mind numbingly easy, just look and there it is, anywhere you can imagine
damn the body
thats why it is hard to be a scorpio
frick'n body
trying to ignore the body for years but sometimes it tries to get the best of me
lucky for the life i led growing up or it would have made me cave by now

(9:56 PM) Jer: it is dangerous to say such things
the universe will make as truth everything that you assert
you're young still, don't be too hard on yourself

(9:58 PM) H: its frustrating i guess sometimes

(9:58 PM) Jer: "I stood in the midst of the world, and in the flesh I manifested myself to them. I found them all drunk; I found none athirst among them. And my soul was afflicted for the children of men. Because they are blind in their heart and do not see, because they have come into the world empty, they seek still to go out of the world empty."

(10:01 PM) H: so just listen to the heart and learn as much as i can to become more knowledgeable with the heart so when the time comes i will be fully satisfied because i have went through what i had and it led me to what i can be

(10:01 PM) Jer: "When one finds himself solitary, he will be full of light; but when he finds himself divided, he will be full of darkness."

(10:02 PM) Jer: "He who knows the All, but has failed to know himself has failed to completely know..."

(10:02 PM) Jer: the heart at that time was synonymous with the organ of thought

(10:02 PM) H: that calms down the fire

(10:03 PM) Jer: so zen, oh so zen

(10:03 PM) H: yay!

(10:04 PM) H: being disgusted with life can make things so difficult

(10:04 PM) Jer: "Now, when you see your appearance, you rejoice. But when you see your images which came into being before you, which do not die and do not show themselves, how will you be able to bear such greatness?"

(10:05 PM) Jer: "The body which depends on a body is unfortunate, and the soul which depends on a these two is unfortunate"

(10:06 PM) H: this stuff is soooooooooo nice

(10:07 PM) Jer: woot

(10:09 PM) Jer: from the author/translator: "No doubt the lion here represents human passions, or more precisely, the lying spirit of evil" which he covers earlier as being the deluge.... the whole interesting bit about CS Lewis's Jesus figure

(10:09 PM) H: it was soo strange because of school and the drama of life, i had forgot the one voice that is clear to me over my life.
listening to this stuff from the gospel of thomas has made me hear that again
truth through wisdom

(10:11 PM) Jer: yeah... crowley and dyer espouse similar notions
using different terms to iterate the same sort of concepts

(10:12 PM) Jer: there's a lot here that denotes detachment and withdrawal from physical demands and existence in order to reconcile with your "source" to which you return... in so many words as what Wayne Dyer uses

(10:13 PM) H: when i hear this voice i see a silhouette
is that similar

(10:13 PM) Jer: Crowley's a bit more of a poet : lies are lies because to engender an idea in words makes it dependent upon those ambiguous definitions and limitations of words, so anything that is TRUE fails to be so when uttered

(10:14 PM) Jer: again, we're back to notions of the tao
does silly putty dry out?

(10:14 PM) H: don't think it does
so the idea of words is so limited to explain them using words defiles the feeling of what they truly are and inhibits the true ness of that feeling

(10:16 PM) Jer: goes back to "truth carries the ambiguity of the words used to describe it" and that bit about definitions
as words are symbols of an idealized definition

(10:17 PM) H: understandable

(10:17 PM) Jer: who's bounds become pushed depending upon context

(10:17 PM) H: can't always relate to someone the same way with words then if you would with feelings

(10:18 PM) Jer: true
there's an entire episode of Æon Flux which had a futuristic form of humanity which communicated solely with mental imagery
leaving behind the misunderstandings of spoken words

(10:19 PM) H: but not being able to explain them in words is where they cease to be useful

(10:19 PM) Jer: i should say, mental imagery and empathic impluse

(10:19 PM) H: so in a way art would be a part of this feeling
but not everyone will feel the same but will feel something

(10:20 PM) Jer: where understanding is obtained without the need for an explanation

(10:20 PM) H: but with art there is no need for explanation because it is purely what you feel

(10:20 PM) Jer: 99% of the time arguments are simply semantic arguments in disguise
people think they disagree on a concept but really only disagree on how they choose to define it

(10:21 PM) H: that makes perfect sense

(10:22 PM) Jer: like you or i may be able to easily see the parallels of world religions and even correlations between rival factions, but their conceptions are so precise amongst themselves that they are unable to see past their own definitions

(10:22 PM) H: hmm

(10:22 PM) Jer: instead of obtaining the objectivity necessary to grasp truth
.... which is oddly what people like Jesus were trying to point out

(10:24 PM) H: they were trying to put what they were feeling into words but in order to do that they have to filter what they are feeling into what could be understood

(10:24 PM) Jer: Jesus' stint against the Pharisees is precisely that - that they hide themselves behind their dogma and hide people from their false truth to make it seem as though they;ve attained something

(10:24 PM) H: and that is where you had believers and those who defied

(10:24 PM) Jer: yup
and then you have the the distinction between what is meant by words and how they are interpreted by those hearing or reading them

(10:25 PM) H: the ignorant vs the intelligent

(10:25 PM) Jer: again, the ambiguity of words
or ignorant and enlightened
which the bible traditionally calls darkness and light